Print Page | Close Window

the control of natural fermentation of raw milk

Printed From: Dairy Science and Food Technology
Category: Starter cultures
Forum Name: Starter cultures
Forum Description: Discussion about the microorganisms used in the manufacture of cultured products
URL: https://www.dairyscience.info/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=182
Printed Date: 25 Jun 2022 at 2:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: the control of natural fermentation of raw milk
Posted By: Guests
Subject: the control of natural fermentation of raw milk
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:06pm

who know about this topic?

DVI culture is too expensive here.

If I can control the natural fermentation of raw milk,I could produce some cheese with more flavor and less cost.




Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:06pm
I have some idea:

1.the control of pH

2.the control of Temp

3.add lactic acid

4.add citric acid

5.add lactic culture (with out Pasteurization)

6.add NaCl

7.add Nisin

8.add KNO3

9.add lactose or galactose


Of course,I will use high quality raw milk to produce starter culture.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:06pm
Now I am studying cheese making parctice in inner mogolia agricultural university

maybe I will produce my own cheese soon.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:07pm
I want to a complex mircoorganisms system which is suitable for cheesemaking.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:07pm
Interesting area and one in which there has been a lot of work done.

I will send you some considered comments over the next few days.

Regards

Mike


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:07pm
I think that a control of fermentation of raw milk is very difficult. Cheeses produced with raw milk are very changeable but this is a characteristic intrinsic.
With pasteurized milk and starters obtained cheeses are very standardised but more anonymous with similar taste and aroma.
For a standardisation with raw milk and a control it possible use two techniques. In the first, after the coagulation and the cut of the curd it is possible cooking the whey with curd (T>52 °C). It is the technique used for Parmigiano and Grana that use about 55-56 °C for 5-10 minutes. With this treatment only thermphilic bacteria survives and define the cheese characteristics.
The secont technique is the use of acidified whey that is add to milk before the coagulation (than before the add of rennet). With this treatment it is possible to change the pH of milk and above all add selected acid lactic bacteria. This approach is used for Grana and Parmigiano that are produced only with raw milk.
It is possible to use also an acidified milk instead of acidified whey but it is possible, with raw milk where lactic bacteria are scarce, that other bacteria to prevail. These techniques are largely used in Italy by cheese-makers that used raw milk.
Regards


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:08pm
question on the first technique:

do I need to add cultures before adding rennet? or let it to ferment naturally when the pH reach right value?

This technique is suitable for high-temperature cheese.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:08pm
question on the second technique:

If I donot have mother culture, how I can get sour whey. so I have to get some naturally fermented milk before I can get a sour whey.

If I only have Danisco DVI culture, how can I get a sour whey?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:08pm
I have read that french cheesemakers think that cheesemaking begin with herb (for feeding herds) , but I think it ture for many traditional cheesemakers in EU.

so ,if I can get high quality raw milk ,I will easily get high quality naturally fermented milk?

when there was not DVI cultures ,how cheddar, gouda, stilton, .
.......be made ?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:09pm
I have read that Mozzarella cheese which is inaculated by sour whey has better flavor than that by DVI culture.

but in china I have no chance to see how this full flavor tranditional mozzarella being made.

when make sourdough bread, the technique for naturally fermented is much easilier than that for cheese, because the bread will be heat to a really high temperature when be baking.

I often see traditional workshops in china make naturally fermented chinese bread (Mantou). I think it more artful than using intant dry yeast.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by childream

question on the first technique:

do I need to add cultures before adding rennet? or let it to ferment naturally when the pH reach right value?

This technique is suitable for high-temperature cheese.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by childream

question on the second technique:

If I donot have mother culture, how I can get sour whey. so I have to get some naturally fermented milk before I can get a sour whey.

If I only have Danisco DVI culture, how can I get a sour whey?
 
The whey is obtained by a cheese production also without starter adjunct. After 24-48 hours at 35-37 °C the whey is acidified and can be used for cheesemaking. During this time a selection of microflora is performed and, generally, only lactic bacteria are present in the final product.
If you have starter it is also possible to sterilize whey then add in this whey the starter


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by childream

I have read that french cheesemakers think that cheesemaking begin with herb (for feeding herds) , but I think it ture for many traditional cheesemakers in EU.

so ,if I can get high quality raw milk ,I will easily get high quality naturally fermented milk?

when there was not DVI cultures ,how cheddar, gouda, stilton, .
.......be made ?

 
Quality of cheese born with milk and with herb generally quality is higher. This is due to activity of some component of herb (fatty acids, terpenes) that can be change milk characteristics
It is obviuos that starter cultures have a large activity on cheese characteristics and effect of herb is largely reduced or cancelled.
Then herb effect is true generally only with cheese production with raw milk and without starter culture.
When strater culture are not present all cheeses are produced with raw milk and natural microflora of milk !


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by childream

I have read that Mozzarella cheese which is inaculated by sour whey has better flavor than that by DVI culture.

but in china I have no chance to see how this full flavor tranditional mozzarella being made.

when make sourdough bread, the technique for naturally fermented is much easilier than that for cheese, because the bread will be heat to a really high temperature when be baking.

I often see traditional workshops in china make naturally fermented chinese bread (Mantou). I think it more artful than using intant dry yeast.
 
It is necessary to explain that with the name "Mozzarella" and similar are present three product: a cheese produced with pasteurised cow milk and acidified with bacteria add as starter; a cheese produced with pasteurised cow milk and acidified with citric acid; a cheese produced with raw or pasteurised buffalo milk and acidified with bacteria add as starter or natural microflora.
It is obvious that large differences in structure, flavour and taste are present among these products. In the production of this cheese it is never use acidified whey and starter are adjuncted directly in the milk before adjunct of rennet. Whey is used for curd acidification: curd is placed in whey and leave for 2-5 hours for a small acidification.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:10pm
I find the information here:

MANUAL ON THE PRODUCTION
OF TRADITIONAL BUFFALO
MOZZARELLA CHEESE

Author: Matilde Calandrelli


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:10pm
Thank you so much for your directions!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:11pm
this is from that book:

MANUAL ON THE PRODUCTION
OF TRADITIONAL BUFFALO
MOZZARELLA CHEESE

Author: Matilde Calandrelli


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:11pm
and this:
http://thesis-tutor.co.uk/simpleforum_files/attachments/m2.JPG -


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Tong

and this:
http://thesis-tutor.co.uk/simpleforum_files/attachments/m2.JPG -
 
It is true, there is a mistake on my old message. For the Buffalo mozzarella it is used acidified whey while for other mozzarella types are used generally starter cultures.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:12pm
ok

I see

thank you



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net