why some goat cheese are covered with ash (charcoa

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   The concentrationof Ca PO4 at the surface exceeds its solubility 
at the increased pH and precipitates as a layer 
near the surface, thereby causing a Ca PO4 
gradient within the cheese (3). Normally about 
75% of the Ca and 33% of the PO4 have 
migrated from the center to the surface by d 17 
(42). The reduction in the Ca PO4 concentration 
in the interior helps to soften the body of 
the cheese by increased swelling of the protein 
(41). The elevated pH stimulates the action of 
plasmin. Proteolysis is caused by residual coagulant 
and plasmin, rather than proteinases 
secreted by the surface microorganisms, which 
diffuse into the cheese to only a very limited 
extent 

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childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: why some goat cheese are covered with ash (charcoa Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:44pm
	The concentrationof Ca PO4 at the surface exceeds its solubility at the increased pH and precipitates as a layer near the surface, thereby causing a Ca PO4 gradient within the cheese (3). Normally about 75% of the Ca and 33% of the PO4 have migrated from the center to the surface by d 17 (42). The reduction in the Ca PO4 concentration in the interior helps to soften the body of the cheese by increased swelling of the protein (41). The elevated pH stimulates the action of plasmin. Proteolysis is caused by residual coagulant and plasmin, rather than proteinases secreted by the surface microorganisms, which diffuse into the cheese to only a very limited extent

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childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:44pm
	I find sth more about the role of pH increasing on the surface of cheese e.g Camembert J. A. LUCEV,P. F. FOX,Importance of Calcium and Phosphate in Cheese Manufacture: A Review,1993 J Dairy Sci 76:1714-1724 "Camembert Cheese In Camembert cheese, secondary microorganisms, especially Geotnchum candidum and Penicillium caseicolum, quickly colonize the cheese surface and dominate the existing microflora. These microorganisms then rapidly metabolize lactate to C02 and H20, causing an increase in pH (20), initially at the surface, resulting in a pH gradient from the surface to the center, and causing lactate to diffuse outward (30, 43). When the lactate has been exhausted, P. caseicolum metabolizes proteins, producing NH3, which diffuses inward, further increasing the pH (20, 42). The concentrationof Ca PO4 at the surface exceeds its solubility at the increased pH and precipitates as a layer near the surface, thereby causing a Ca PO4 gradient within the cheese (3). Normally about 75% of the Ca and 33% of the PO4 have migrated from the center to the surface by d 17 (42). The reduction in the Ca PO4 concentration in the interior helps to soften the body of the cheese by increased swelling of the protein (41). The elevated pH stimulates the action of plasmin. Proteolysis is caused by residual coagulant and plasmin, rather than proteinases secreted by the surface microorganisms, which diffuse into the cheese to only a very limited extent . The combined action of increased pH, loss of Ca, and proteolysis is necessary for the considerable softening of the body of Camembert cheese (20)."

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:44pm
	Great! Thank you for your explaination and nice pics

zeppa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote zeppa Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:43pm
	Edited by michael - 06 Apr 2010 at 7:17pm

zeppa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote zeppa Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:42pm
	The charcoal is used for treatment of cheese surface generally for goat cheeses or cow cheeses produced only with acidification but it is also used in few cases for Parmigiano Reggiano PDO or Grana Padano PDO. It is a treatment used in Italy only by some artisanal cheese-makers according to a technique used in France. I know three reasons for this application. The first is aesthetic: it is very beautiful look a white curd in a black coating. It is even more beautiful if white moulds are developed externally to the charcoal. In this case there are three layers: the white curd, the black charcoal and the white surface with moulds. The second reason is technological: with this treatment an increasing of pH is possible then the mould development is better. This treatment is not used for Camembert or Brie but these cheeses are produced with rennet then surface acidy is lower. With cheeses produced only for milk acidification the surface acidity is very high then a de-acidification treatment can be useful. The third reason is also technological: the charcoal soak up whey then the surface is more dry and the cheese dries more rapidly and better. I do not know studies about this technique that I think used only by small producers.

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:42pm
	yes , I agree with you there is not ash on camembert nor Brie

michael Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote michael Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:42pm
	I am not sure that I am convinced! Moulds seem to be able to grow fairly well on acidic cheeses. While ash may well increase surface pH and help growth of moulds I think that the main reason for the continued use of this practice is for marketing reasons. M

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:41pm
	I have found something about ash which is on the surface of goat cheese today "Carefully, they are ashed with vegetable carbon ash, from poplar trees, which helps to neutralize the acidity of the surface of the cheese. This enables the mold that was added to the milk to grow and form the rind during the aging process."

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:41pm
	Thank you

michael Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote michael Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:41pm
	Tong Salt as you know is very important in cheese making. The ash is simply an alternative to 'commercial' salt. Also it adds something different that helps with marketing these special cheeses. I ate my first raw milk goat cheeses in Turin in Italy under the guidance of Professor Giuseppe Zeppa. They were delicious! I have alerted Prof Zeppa to your posting; he has a lot of practical and research experience with artisanal cheeses. Regards Mike

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:41pm
	This pic is from www.fantomefarm.com Edited by michael - 06 Apr 2010 at 7:07pm

childream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote childream Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:40pm
	what's the role of charcoal ash on the surface of some goat cheese? It is said that ash could increase the pH at the surface of cheese,but why they do that? by reading the artisan series (babcock website ).I have learnt many other ways to transform milk to cheese,especially the artisan in France. French revere raw milk, which is strictly controlled in USA.